Discussion:
[BluesList] Irma Thomas has mixed feelings about the rediscovery of her 1970s-era 'Lost Cotillion Album'
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Jimmy Jacobs
2014-05-17 12:30:42 UTC
Permalink
I listened to some of this during my last visit to NOLA and passed on
buying it.

http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead

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Masahiro Sumori
2014-05-17 16:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for sharing.
While it is understandable that Irma was not comfortable
with the situation when these recordings took place,
I found the CD to be quite enjoyable, and nicely done.
It seems that they've invested a lot of money on it, and
kind of makes me wonder why they had to scrap it.

Regards
Mas

oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--oo--
MASAHIRO SUMORI Blues Ginza, Tokyo, Japan
URL: http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/bluesy/

On 2014/05/17, at 21:29, Jimmy Jacobs wrote:

> I listened to some of this during my last visit to NOLA and passed on buying it.
>
> http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead
>
> -- Shared using Google Toolbar
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> - To contact the list administrator, send a message to: Blues_L-***@listserv.nethelps.com
> - To unsubscribe, send a new email to: ***@listserv.nethelps.com, with the message: unsubscribe Blues_L



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Jef Jaisun
2014-05-17 17:37:47 UTC
Permalink
"Full Time Woman" was originally written and
recorded by blues singer Alice Stuart, who is
still performing and touring. www.alicestuart.com
The song was released on her Fantasy Records
album in 1970, and remains in her set list. It's
been covered by a number of artists besides Irma,
one of them being Grootna, the group produced by
Jefferson Airplane's Marty Balin in 1972 for
Columbia. Somewhere I might still have the rare single of that release.

Arif Mardin produced a huge number of successful
female balladeers. Unfortunately for Irma, one of
them was Diana Ross. Also unfortunately, when it
came to Irma, Mardin couldn't see the forest for
the trees. Maybe it was that failure that helped
him do a better job later on, with artists like
Anita Baker, Norah Jones and Roberta Flack.

It always bothers me to hear of bonehead
recording moguls trying to change the style of
inherently great artists to match someone already
famous. How many flopped folksingers have been
touted as "the next Bob Dylan?" Specialty Records
tried to get Little Richard to sound like Nat
Cole, til one night producer Bumps Blackwell
heard the real Richard on stage. Columbia had no
clue what to do with Aretha early on, and those
LPs made her sound like a lounge singer. At least
Wexler got that one right when he signed her to
Atlantic. In 1970, a blues singer friend of mine
was told by another top clown at Columbia that he
needed to "sound more like James Taylor." Say
what? Kind of brings up the retro-rhetorical
question: "So what was your first clue the recording industry was on coke?"

Forty years later Irma still rules. Anyone who's
see her perform can tell you that.

JJ



At 05:29 AM 5/17/2014, Jimmy Jacobs wrote:
>I listened to some of this during my last visit
>to NOLA and passed on buying it.Â
>
><http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead>http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead

>-- Shared using Google Toolbar
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>- To contact the list administrator, send a
>message to: Blues_L-***@listserv.nethelps.com
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Bill Dahl
2014-05-17 17:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Specialty Records never tried to make Little Richard sound like Nat Cole, nor did any other label (he would have been incapable of it). His historic first 1955 sessions in New Orleans for Specialty had already included the blistering rocker "Kansas City" and some terrific blues ballads (think Roy Brown or Billy Wright, not Nat) prior to Richard and Bumps Blackwell heading out for a bite to eat, where Richard commandeered the piano and performed the then-raunchy "Tutti Frutti." Since Bumps hadn't heard him do the song before, it certainly wasn't his fault it wasn't on the schedule that day, but it sure was when they got back to Cosimo's. Perhaps you're thinking of Ray Charles, who cut a slew of ballads in a very Cole/Charles Brown bag until he found his own rougher, more gospel-influenced style--but that was his own preference, not that of a producer.

I'm quite pleased Real Gone has unearthed these priceless Irma Thomas tapes. They may be uneven, but I'm sure I'll enjoy them a whole lot more than her recent MOR-slanted stuff for Rounder. I'll be reviewing the Thomas CD in my next Blues Music Magazine reissue column!

Bill Dahl
***@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Jef Jaisun <***@jaisunphoto.com>
To: Blues_L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>; BLUES-L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>
Sent: Sat, May 17, 2014 12:37 pm
Subject: Re: [BluesList] Irma Thomas has mixed feelings about the rediscovery of her 1970s-era 'Lost Cotillion Album'


"Full Time Woman" was originally written and recorded byblues singer Alice Stuart, who is still performing and touring.www.alicestuart.com The song was released on her Fantasy Recordsalbum in 1970, and remains in her set list. It's been covered by a numberof artists besides Irma, one of them being Grootna, the group produced byJefferson Airplane's Marty Balin in 1972 for Columbia. Somewhere I mightstill have the rare single of that release.

Arif Mardin produced a huge number of successful female balladeers.Unfortunately for Irma, one of them was Diana Ross. Also unfortunately,when it came to Irma, Mardin couldn't see the forest for the trees. Maybeit was that failure that helped him do a better job later on, withartists like Anita Baker, Norah Jones and Roberta Flack.

It always bothers me to hear of bonehead recording moguls trying tochange the style of inherently great artists to match someone alreadyfamous. How many flopped folksingers have been touted as "the nextBob Dylan?" Specialty Records tried to get Little Richard to soundlike Nat Cole, til one night producer Bumps Blackwell heard the realRichard on stage. Columbia had no clue what to do with Aretha early on,and those LPs made her sound like a lounge singer. At least Wexler gotthat one right when he signed her to Atlantic. In 1970, a blues singerfriend of mine was told by another top clown at Columbia that he neededto "sound more like James Taylor." Say what? Kind of brings upthe retro-rhetorical question: "So what was your first clue therecording industry was on coke?"

Forty years later Irma still rules. Anyone who's see her perform can tellyou that.

JJ



At 05:29 AM 5/17/2014, Jimmy Jacobs wrote:

I listened to some of thisduring my last visit to NOLA and passed on buying it.Â

http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead
Â
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Jef Jaisun
2014-05-17 18:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Correct on Ray Charles, because Bumps had worked
with Ray in Seattle in the late 1940s. My
recollection is that Art Rupe wasn't getting
anywhere with Richard stylistically, which is why
Bumps was brought in to give it a shot. Until
that fateful "Tutti Frutti" night Bumps had
Nat-ish designs for Richard. Good thing that changed!

JJ


At 10:54 AM 5/17/2014, Bill Dahl wrote:
>Specialty Records never tried to make Little
>Richard sound like Nat Cole, nor did any other
>label (he would have been incapable of it). His
>historic first 1955 sessions in New Orleans for
>Specialty had already included the blistering
>rocker "Kansas City" and some terrific blues
>ballads (think Roy Brown or Billy Wright, not
>Nat) prior to Richard and Bumps Blackwell
>heading out for a bite to eat, where Richard
>commandeered the piano and performed the
>then-raunchy "Tutti Frutti." Since Bumps hadn't
>heard him do the song before, it certainly
>wasn't his fault it wasn't on the schedule that
>day, but it sure was when they got back to
>Cosimo's. Perhaps you're thinking of Ray
>Charles, who cut a slew of ballads in a very
>Cole/Charles Brown bag until he found his own
>rougher, more gospel-influenced style--but that
>was his own preference, not that of a producer.
>
>I'm quite pleased Real Gone has unearthed these
>priceless Irma Thomas tapes. They may be uneven,
>but I'm sure I'll enjoy them a whole lot more
>than her recent MOR-slanted stuff for Rounder.
>I'll be reviewing the Thomas CD in my next Blues Music Magazine reissue column!
>
>Bill Dahl
>***@aol.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jef Jaisun <***@jaisunphoto.com>
>To: Blues_L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>;
>BLUES-L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>
>Sent: Sat, May 17, 2014 12:37 pm
>Subject: Re: [BluesList] Irma Thomas has mixed
>feelings about the rediscovery of her 1970s-era 'Lost Cotillion Album'
>
> "Full Time Woman" was originally written and
> recorded by blues singer Alice Stuart, who is
> still performing and touring.
> <http://www.alicestuart.com/>www.alicestuart.com
> The song was released on her Fantasy Records
> album in 1970, and remains in her set list.
> It's been covered by a number of artists
> besides Irma, one of them being Grootna, the
> group produced by Jefferson Airplane's Marty
> Balin in 1972 for Columbia. Somewhere I might
> still have the rare single of that release.
>
>Arif Mardin produced a huge number of successful
>female balladeers. Unfortunately for Irma, one
>of them was Diana Ross. Also unfortunately, when
>it came to Irma, Mardin couldn't see the forest
>for the trees. Maybe it was that failure that
>helped him do a better job later on, with
>artists like Anita Baker, Norah Jones and Roberta Flack.
>
>It always bothers me to hear of bonehead
>recording moguls trying to change the style of
>inherently great artists to match someone
>already famous. How many flopped folksingers
>have been touted as "the next Bob Dylan?"
>Specialty Records tried to get Little Richard to
>sound like Nat Cole, til one night producer
>Bumps Blackwell heard the real Richard on stage.
>Columbia had no clue what to do with Aretha
>early on, and those LPs made her sound like a
>lounge singer. At least Wexler got that one
>right when he signed her to Atlantic. In 1970, a
>blues singer friend of mine was told by another
>top clown at Columbia that he needed to "sound
>more like James Taylor." Say what? Kind of
>brings up the retro-rhetorical question: "So
>what was your first clue the recording industry was on coke?"
>
>Forty years later Irma still rules. Anyone who's
>see her perform can tell you that.
>
>JJ
>
>
>
>At 05:29 AM 5/17/2014, Jimmy Jacobs wrote:
>>I listened to some of this during my last
>>visit to NOLA and passed on buying it.Â
>>
>><http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead>http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead
>>
>>Â
>>-- Shared using Google Toolbar
>>================================
>>- To contact the list administrator, send a
>>message
>>to:
>><mailto:Blues_L-***@listserv.nethelps.com>Blues_L-***@listserv.nethelps.com
>>- To unsubscribe, send a new email to:
>><mailto:***@listserv.nethelps.com>***@listserv.nethelps.com,
>>with the message: unsubscribe Blues_L
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>to:
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Bill Dahl
2014-05-17 18:34:45 UTC
Permalink
The September 13-14, 1955 New Orleans sessions with Bumps at the helm were Richard's first for Specialty--all that predated them were two self-produced demos ("Baby" and "All Night Long") cut at WMBL in Macon in February of '55 with the Upsetters that Richard mailed to Rupe. Nothing cut by Richard at Cosimo's prior to "Tutti Frutti" even remotely resembles Cole's crooning--just a half-dozen emotionally charged, gospel-inflected blues ballads that presage the advent of soul music as we now know it (including the classic "Directly From My Heart"), a swinging "Baby," and the blazing "Kansas City." When Richard sat down at the piano (replacing Huey Smith), it made a huge difference.
Richard's prior jump blues sessions for RCA Victor and Peacock had no Cole-styled ballads either--he was always a Billy Wright/Roy Brown disciple prior to finding his own style. Specialty's boxed set of Richard's sides from this period gives the full story--it's a must!
Bill Dahl
***@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Jef Jaisun <***@jaisunphoto.com>
To: Blues_L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>; Blues_L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>
Sent: Sat, May 17, 2014 1:07 pm
Subject: Re: [BluesList] Irma Thomas has mixed feelings about the rediscovery of her 1970s-era 'Lost Cotillion Album'


Correct on Ray Charles, because Bumps had worked with Ray in Seattle inthe late 1940s. My recollection is that Art Rupe wasn't getting anywherewith Richard stylistically, which is why Bumps was brought in to give ita shot. Until that fateful "Tutti Frutti" night Bumps hadNat-ish designs for Richard. Good thing that changed!

JJ


At 10:54 AM 5/17/2014, Bill Dahl wrote:

Specialty Recordsnever tried to make Little Richard sound like Nat Cole, nor did any otherlabel (he would have been incapable of it). His historic first 1955sessions in New Orleans for Specialty had already included the blisteringrocker "Kansas City" and some terrific blues ballads (think RoyBrown or Billy Wright, not Nat) prior to Richard and Bumps Blackwellheading out for a bite to eat, where Richard commandeered the piano andperformed the then-raunchy "Tutti Frutti." Since Bumps hadn'theard him do the song before, it certainly wasn't his fault it wasn't onthe schedule that day, but it sure was when they got back to Cosimo's.Perhaps you're thinking of Ray Charles, who cut a slew of ballads in avery Cole/Charles Brown bag until he found his own rougher, moregospel-influenced style--but that was his own preference, not that of aproducer.

I'm quite pleased Real Gone has unearthed these priceless Irma Thomastapes. They may be uneven, but I'm sure I'll enjoy them a whole lot morethan her recent MOR-slanted stuff for Rounder. I'll be reviewing theThomas CD in my next Blues Music Magazine reissue column!

Bill Dahl
***@aol.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Jef Jaisun <***@jaisunphoto.com>
To: Blues_L <***@listserv.nethelps.com>; BLUES-L<***@listserv.nethelps.com>
Sent: Sat, May 17, 2014 12:37 pm
Subject: Re: [BluesList] Irma Thomas has mixed feelings about therediscovery of her 1970s-era 'Lost Cotillion Album'

"Full Time Woman" was originally written and recorded byblues singer Alice Stuart, who is still performing and touring.www.alicestuart.com The songwas released on her Fantasy Records album in 1970, and remains in her setlist. It's been covered by a number of artists besides Irma, one of thembeing Grootna, the group produced by Jefferson Airplane's Marty Balin in1972 for Columbia. Somewhere I might still have the rare single of thatrelease.

Arif Mardin produced a huge number of successful female balladeers.Unfortunately for Irma, one of them was Diana Ross. Also unfortunately,when it came to Irma, Mardin couldn't see the forest for the trees. Maybeit was that failure that helped him do a better job later on, withartists like Anita Baker, Norah Jones and Roberta Flack.

It always bothers me to hear of bonehead recording moguls trying tochange the style of inherently great artists to match someone alreadyfamous. How many flopped folksingers have been touted as "the nextBob Dylan?" Specialty Records tried to get Little Richard to soundlike Nat Cole, til one night producer Bumps Blackwell heard the realRichard on stage. Columbia had no clue what to do with Aretha early on,and those LPs made her sound like a lounge singer. At least Wexler gotthat one right when he signed her to Atlantic. In 1970, a blues singerfriend of mine was told by another top clown at Columbia that he neededto "sound more like James Taylor." Say what? Kind of brings upthe retro-rhetorical question: "So what was your first clue therecording industry was on coke?"

Forty years later Irma still rules. Anyone who's see her perform can tellyou that.

JJ



At 05:29 AM 5/17/2014, Jimmy Jacobs wrote:

I listened to some of thisduring my last visit to NOLA and passed on buying it.Â

http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/05/irma_thomas_has_mixed_feelings.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead
Â
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